This time, we’re talking with Saeed Khan of On Product Management. Saeed has worked in startups and public companies, both in Toronto and Silicon Valley, in roles ranging from individual contributor to Vice President of Product Management.

And he understands the potent combination of Legos and Star Wars, so you know he’s good people.

Image source: Inside Sugab’s Brain

What’s the best career advice Saeed received early? And what’s he find distasteful about “Agile product management”? Read on…

Saeed, what key people helped shape you into the Product Manager you are today?

I’ve been working with computers and software for a long time. It started in high school. This was in the late 70s — before PCs, Macs, Windows, or even DOS for that matter. We had a Wang microcomputer, and my first job was as a computer operator for the school’s daily attendance report.

Teachers would fill out computer punch cards with the class attendance. Every day after school, I would run those cards through a program that the Computer Science teacher wrote. That was my start with computers.

So the first influential person was my CS teacher, Mr. Hay, who not only taught me about programming, but helped me really understand how computers could be useful beyond games.

Beyond games? Impossible!

It’s true!

Much later, as a Product Manager at a small development tools company, I learned a lot of fundamentals from my boss at the time, Dewaine Miller. He was the VP of Marketing and was truly a great mentor.

How did you decide to become a Product Manager?

After high school, I went to university and had numerous jobs related to technology. A particularly bad startup experience with an out-of-touch CEO, an egomaniacal engineering VP, and no product management made it clear how important good product management is!

I’d always been very customer and user centric and that startup experience convinced me to become a Product Manager.

What’s the best career advice you received as you entered product management?

During my first stint as a PM, I went to the VP of Sales about some frustrating experiences with his sales team. The VP was a great guy. He listened to me and then said something like the following:

I can understand why you feel that way. Your approach to the problem is very logical, but you have to understand this one thing about sales people – they are coin operated. If you want them to do anything, show them how it will make more money for them.

Seems pretty basic today, but back then, it was news to me.

From that day onward, not only did I understand how to work with sales people, but the philosophy of knowing peoples’ motivations helped me understand how to work (albeit not always perfectly) with most groups.

What trends do you see in software product management?

First I think one of the good trends is simply the growing awareness of both the role and value of product management in the overall technology and software community.

Most, if not all technology companies have product management in some form, but clearly there’s a ways to go before all of those companies get to a stage where they implement strong product management teams and practices, and realize the full business benefit that can be had.

Even early stage companies and startups are realizing that product management is important and are heading in that direction. Terms such as “customer development” and “product-market fit” are becoming understood as being critical to early stage success, even if people don’t currently associate those terms directly with product management.

Another good trend is the growth of the PM community via blogs, associations and particularly events like ProductCamp. I believe this ties into the growing awareness, and perhaps curiosity about product management.

In Toronto, we’ve held two camps and will hold our third this year. Aside from Toronto and several cities in the US, there was a ProductCamp in Amsterdam last fall, and one in Sydney a few months ago. It’s truly becoming international and that’s a great trend.

Sounds great! Any negative trends?

One negative trend, in my opinion at least — and I think I’ll ruffle some feathers here — is this recurring notion of “Agile product management“.

The Agile movement in the engineering community is well underway, there’s no denying that. And for the record, I think it’s a good thing, particularly when it truly helps change the mindset of those development teams and enables them to be responsive to needed plan changes.

But, when those in the product management community prefix the word “Agile” in front of “product management”, we do ourselves a disservice, because it too closely ties product management to the engineering teams, and further pigeonholes us as an adjunct to engineering.

When working with Agile development teams, the interface between product management and engineering needs some adjustment, but that doesn’t change the fundamental goals and ways that we need to do the remainder of our jobs.

I’ve argued on my blog (albeit a little bit tongue in cheek) that product management has always been responsive to change, that we really want working software, that we’ve always put people ahead of process, and of course customers well ahead of contracts; in short, that we’ve always been Agile. And it’s engineering that is finally (and thankfully) in the process of making that adjustment.

Some people don’t agree, and that’s fine, but I honestly feel that associating too closely with words like “Agile” or “Extreme” or “2.0″ or whatever else becomes the latest engineering or industry buzzword is detrimental.

As long as people don’t have a clear understanding of the basic goals and value of product management, these kinds of associations will bring more confusion than clarity.

If you could thrust yourself, “Being John Malkovich”-style, into someone else’s shoes for a day, whose shoes would you choose, and why?

I can’t give you just one answer, so here’s a few but I’ll keep it brief:

1. My wife – she’s the ultimate multi-tasker, prioritizer, coordinator, and cross-team leader. We have a big family and she somehow brings order to what could otherwise be utter chaos. I honestly don’t know how she does everything she does.
2. Steve Jobs – for obvious reasons. Though I’d like it to be on a day when he’s making key decisions and interacting with a lot of people. Not on a day when he’s giving a well rehearsed speech at a product launch or other industry event.
3. David Suzuki – an outstanding Canadian, but more importantly an incredible person who has been (seemingly tirelessly) speaking out about the potential harmful impacts of climate change for over 20 years.

Follow Up

Thanks, Saeed! If you want to connect with Saeed, please follow him on Twitter @saeedwkhan or visit him at On Product Management.

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This time, we’re talking with Carl Knibbs, a London-based Product Director and co-founder of Lovemoney.com. Who happens to share my love for the British drama Being Human.

The cast of Being Human, or what the PM team looks like at the end of the day?

What’s the single biggest mistake Product Managers make on the job? And what has working for the BBC taught him? Read on…

Carl, what attracted you to product management?

Product Management requires a mixture of creativity and drive to get things done well. It was clear to me when I started my career in ‘digital’ that product management would both challenge and reward me the most. So far, so good!

What inspires you in your day-to-day workflow?

I am most inspired by the never-ending churn of bright ideas on the internet.

And also by people. Having spent much of my career working at the BBC in particular — who have amazing people working on BBC.co.uk — you learn that digital attracts the brightest and most talented individuals who it is impossible not to be inspired by and to learn from.

What excites you about your current products?

These days I am motivated and inspired by my team (UXD engineer, me) and the prospect of simplifying how we manage our finances in the UK.

Together with a management team of ex-Motley Fool, MTV and BBC we’ve started lovemoney.com and our online banking service. The site has only been around since 2009 and I am hopeful we’ll soon be the number one money destination in the UK.

Reflecting on things you’ve seen or experienced over the years, what would you say is the single biggest mistake Product Managers make on the job–and how should they avoid it?

Without doubt, tunnel vision. Tunnel vision ruins a product’s competitive edge. I think this can avoided by constantly reviewing the competition and the product roadmap and taking a fresh approach whenever it is realistic to do so.

Do you see cultural or other differences in product leadership in the UK versus the US or other parts of the world?

I think that the US product leadership champions the product with higher priority and focus than we perhaps do in the UK. I think we could certainly learn from that.

How do you see product management evolving over the next 5 years?

I think that the concepts and traits of product management will continue to bleed over in to being the central focus of maintaining and developing digital products within organizations.

I predict less product managers, but more people employing product management practices.

I’m a big fan of British sci-fi shows (Primeval, Doctor Who, Being Human). What are you watching and enjoying these days?

Oh, I love Being Human — the irony is I left the BBC before shows like this started!

We (UK) are just getting the latest season of 24, which I am glued to. I, of- course, spent last summer watching all episodes of The Wire, which I loved.

Right now I just finished with the UK version of the Scandinavian drama Wallander, not sure that one will make it your way…

Follow Up

Thanks, Carl! If you want to connect with Carl, please follow him on Twitter @CarlKnibbs or visit his website, carlknibbs.net.

New Around Here?

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In this role, David develops and drives the product vision by unifying product strategy and execution with input and insight from the market, clients, and industry.

Prior to CrownPeak, David worked as a leader in the Information Architecture and User Experience disciplines, first at the pioneering web firm W3-design, later with USWeb/CKS, and finally at marchFIRST. David continues to guest lecture on IA, usability, and content management as part of the information science curriculum at UCLA.

What inspired David to jump from IA to product management? And if he won the lottery tomorrow, how would he spend his millions? Let’s find out…

David, tell us a little about your background. How did you enter product management?

I morphed into product management several years ago, following the overall “pattern” (where’s the sarcasm mark?) of my career path thus far.

A degree in communications focused on film & TV led to working at an Internet startup in the early 90′s writing tons of code… flowing into an associate partner role in heading up information architecture… and then to helping start one of the first SaaS companies, where our focus was content management. 

So, you’re comfortable wearing multiple hats, then?

Definitely — my colleagues and I wore a ton of different hats in those early days, but with growth, we knew formalizing our product management efforts were key to maintaining momentum. 

Having worked extensively in our services group while keeping an eye on the product, the switch made sense in that I’ve been able to transition deep customer understanding into tangible product strategy and development.

How has your IA experience helped you as a product manager?

My IA experience really gave me a sharp focus on how users interacted with information and products.  Combine this with the work in services to understand real-world customer issues, and a strong grip on the technical to know what’s possible/what isn’t, and it all made product management into the next exciting challenge.

In hindsight, it almost feels like I planned it!

What do you like most — and least — about being a Product Manager?

I have a love/hate relationship with my favorite part of product management, which is the whole cross-discipline aspect. 

How great is it to be able to work with development, with marketing, with clients, and with sales?  As product managers, we touch on so much and I relish being able to pull from all these sources to help deliver products that solve a multitude of problems. 

But it demands an incredible amount of organization and a focused process to keep everything balanced. 

Every so often, there are those days where things just aren’t in sync — the result is a lot of thrash with little output.  Those are the frustrating times.  That’s when a good methodology helps. You don’t need to follow it dogmatically, but it does help keep you grounded and get you re-focused.

What’s the biggest mistake you see PMs making — and how can that mistake be avoided?

The biggest mistake I see product managers making is assuming that they have all the answers — or all the “right” answers anyway. 

Product strategy and development are collaborative — being the “CEO of the product” does not mean you should be the “fascist dictator of the product“. 

I attended a lecture a year or two ago that featured several animation film directors. One of the directors was Andrew Stanton of Pixar and he was discussing the production process on Wall-E and what he said about working with his team really stuck with me for product management (paraphrasing): “It doesn’t matter who’s idea gets on the board — it matters that the best idea gets on the board“. 

As a Product Manager, that’s something I strive to do when working with my team.  I’ve got plenty of data to back up my conclusions and I’ll be fighting for them for sure, but I won’t be blinded by them either.

How do you see product management evolving over the next 5 years?

I think product management is in a bit of a thrash period at the moment — but in a good way. 

The explosion in types of companies being created to serve different audiences (mobile, hyperlocal, gaming etc.) combined with the ever growing ways for product managers to collect data and connect with customers (the whole social ecosystem) means that product managers need to be more flexible than ever in their approach to their job. 

So over the next 5 years, I think you’ll see many going to the established methodologies/frameworks in an attempt to wring some order from the chaos — but that for these newer companies, they will also “remix” those methodologies a bit to find what fits their model. 

Some will flourish, some will crash-and-burn, and I think there will be a lot of organic adjusting between the keepers of the methodologies and the practitioners as they find the right mix to fit the evolving business climate. 

The fundamentals of the process will stay the same, but the product managers that can apply their own nuances correctly to those fundamentals — and separate the signal from the noise inherent in social collaboration — those will have the best chance at success.

“Remixing” is an interesting word choice. Can you give us an example of how traditional product management methodologies might get remixed?

I think remixing is a fairly apt term for what’s going on out there, especially in light of things like the whole “lean startup” movement.

When I read through the general overview of that concept/methodology/manifesto/you-get-the-idea, it certainly has some of the high points of commonly accepted product management best practices: get out of the office, develop to the customer’s needs, agile development practices.

But I can’t help feeling they’ve tried to ratchet the speedometer up quite a bit in terms of speed of delivery, getting out of a standard software “release” mentality, and eschewing more of the organizational trappings of larger companies.

It’s certainly not a repudiation of “classic” product management, but a remix for what works in these smaller, more nimble environments.

Will this remixing only take place at lean startups?

Not by a long shot! In terms of companies using it: IMVU would be one (since Eric Ries, who really championed the concept is there) and Hitpost is another that seems to have embraced this.

These companies “get real” quickly… sure, they’ve got stealth time, but by and large, they’re iterating at an amazing pace, prior to your standard huge marketing/sales push.

In terms of companies that could make use of it… they’re an easy target, but Microsoft has to stand out. They’re starting to get better on things — thinking Project Natal here — but they could still use a massive kick in the product management pants.

How so?

I’ve been taken to task for this on Twitter, but the length of time it’s taking them to get Windows Mobile 7 out is borderline criminal. They’ve got the resources to dig deep and push it through, but one can’t help but think they should be giving Apple and Google more of a run for their money – and they’re not.

Although, perhaps just as it’s unfair to expect startups to function like large companies, perhaps we shouldn’t expect large companies to function like startups?

And now, the literal million dollar question: If you won the lottery tomorrow, how would you spend your millions?

Ah, the lottery question… after a rational-but-not-obscene-amount of “get comfortable” spending (pay off bills) — and this might sound incredibly corny — but I would donate to and actively participate in organizations helping the blind and visually impaired. 

My wife went blind a number of years ago and while it’s been challenging to say the least, she’s persevered thanks to an amazing spirit and great help from organizations like the Braille Institute and Guide Dogs for the Blind. 

Her guide dog “Anya” in particular has made a huge difference in her independence — so much so that I’ve volunteered as a puppy raiser for the organization for the past 4 years, raising 3 puppies in that time.  My first puppy made it to become a guide dog, and it’s easily one of the best accomplishments of my life.

Follow Up

Thanks, David! If you want to connect with David, please follow him on Twitter @TheDavidBase or visit his website, thedavidbase.com.

New Around Here?

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Sally is a Product Manager for a privately-held b2b software and services company with over 25,000 customers in more than 70 countries, and has a wealth of experience behind her.

How has her multi-faceted background benefited her, her products, and her team? And what’s the hardest lesson she’s learned as a Product Manager?

Answers to these questions, and more, after the jump…

Sally, what inspired you to become a Product Manager?

I guess you could call me the Accidental Product Manager. Oh wait; I think someone already has that moniker. Let me explain…

I’ve been in the software industry for over 15 years and held several positions: Technical trainer, implementation specialist, developer, product analyst, and now product manager.

So you didn’t set out to be a Product Manager?

Right. I was looking for a new challenge after working as developer for over 10 years. The revolving door of learning and implementing new software technologies had gotten somewhat old.

I had the opportunity to join a new department, Product Management, as a senior product analyst. Nine months after I joined the department, each analyst was assigned a product and elevated to the position of Product Manager.

What do you like most — and least — about being a Product Manager?

What I enjoy the most is performing research and problem solving. Product management affords me the opportunity to do both–research market problems and create solutions to those problems.

The most frustrating part about being a Product Manager is that the position is not well understood and it means different things to different people and organizations.

What’s the hardest lesson you’ve learned as a Product Manager?

The biggest mistake you can make is not questioning assumptions.

If a customer asks for a feature, dig deeper to find out what problem the customer believes the requested feature will solve for them. Never assume you know the answer. Never be afraid to ask for clarification. Never take anything at face value.

Has your varied background helped or hindered you?

Definitely helped. My previous coding experience has allowed me to identify and assess pre-production issues prior to launch. My customer facing and training experience has allowed me to better define and drive our product’s goals to meet the ever-changing needs of our customer base.

For example, I’m intimately acquainted with the object model for our reporting solution. I was able to use that knowledge to guide the team on how to support custom versions of reports.

If a new Product Manager doesn’t have that kind of varied background, how would you recommend them getting some of that direct experience?

As soon as builds of your product become available, install and use your product. Not only will you gain valuable experience in testing and troubleshooting, you’ll also identify potential issues earlier in the development cycle.

Be sure to train your internal customers: You will get a unique perspective on the challenges your co-workers face in selling, training and supporting your product.

Who, or what, has recently inspired you as a Product Manager?

Most recently, I’ve been inspired by Rich Nutinsky, an instructor with Pragmatic Marketing. I credit him with encouraging me to find creative ways to work around the barriers that exist in every organization. When you encounter a barrier that cannot be moved, do not complain. Be creative!

Another source of inspiration comes from my association with other product management professionals that I’ve met through Twitter. Jim Holland, David Locke, Stewart Rogers and Jennifer Doctor have especially been very helpful and generous in their support.

Where do you see yourself in five years time?

Five years from now, I hope to be doing the same thing — only much better!

Follow Up

Thanks, Sally! If you want to connect with Sally, follow her on Twitter @SallyOutLoud.

New Around Here?

Subscribe to the feed to receive future updates; follow me on Twitter to keep the discussion going! And don’t forget to listen to our podcast on iTunes or wherever amateur fine podcasts are available.

A veteran PM and consultant, David will be attending the next meeting of the Orange Country Product Managers group on February 10 as well as the Orange County Product Camp on February 27.

How does he see product management evolving over the next five years? What are the pros and cons of the growth in product management? Answers to these questions, and more, after the jump…

David, you express a definite point of view on product management. How would you define a successful Product Manager?

A successful product manager leads. Leadership begins with influence, and influence is the outcome of communications and a proactive time stance.

The successful product manager knows everyone that contributes to the current offer, and everyone that will contribute to the offer in the near future.

You know more than their names; you know their motivators, the way they define the work, the way they interpret the requirements, their definition of success, and those of their functional managers or business unit executives. That’s a lot of people. That’s a lot of communications.

What are the benefits of a “proactive time stance”?

Given that questions almost never happen proactively, and tend to happen in a reactive, work stoppage timeframe, any delay in answering causes a succession of problems and further delays.

A proactive time stance frees up time for the product manager, those bringing the product to market, and the executives of the company, and enables the product manager to answer questions that set policy and enable work, without incurring delays, or testing the boundaries of permission and forgiveness.

Answering the question on demand means knowing the boundaries of the answer ahead of time, and the exploration of those boundaries has to happen proactively.

What’s the single biggest mistake Product Managers make on the job?

Reactive work by Product Managers is a core problem.

For example, one Product Manager I know wasn’t getting what he wanted from development. The spec lacked details. The bug list was long.

He focused on the bug list, and didn’t make time for other issues within his scope. As a result, the gaps in the spec never got closed and the bug list kept growing.

Diving into the bug list forced him into a reactive time stance consuming the time he could have spent closing gaps in the spec, directing and answering the questions around those other issues.

Many of us have probably been in that boat. How do you effectively address that kind of situation?

Treat it like a bug. Solve the bug. Then, step back and do a manufacturing process type QA assessment.

Determine how you came to be in a reactive time stance, and create the means to keep you from falling out of the proactive time stance into a reactive one.

If there is too much on your plate, delegate some of it to someone you can trust. Check your assumptions: Where are the specs failing to communicate fully and clearly? When you discover information driving a change in the specs, how quickly do you get the word out?

Ask your audit questions, and find a solution to that reactivity. Don’t wait until everything has crept closer and is suddenly in your face, demanding attention, demanding more reactivity.

You’ve mentioned in your tweets the difference between getting a product adopted and getting it sold. Please explain.

Technologies are adopted. Products and services are sold.

Products and services are instances of the technology, and are intended to get the technology adopted.

Selling products and services provides us with cash and financial market glory. Your technologies (or those of other vendors that you use in your products or to provide your services) determines your place on the technology adoption lifecycle.

How do you see product management evolving over the next 5 years?

I’ve worked with product managers for a long time — as in, before Agile.

Product management has a past. And, it has a future. There seem to be more product managers than ever before. This growth has its upside, and unfortunately a downside.

The upside is that more people have a chance at the job. This drives certification and degree programs. The goal of these programs is to get more qualified people on the market, to increase the supply so the demand can be met.

However, as the demand gets met, you see pay drop and you see positions like junior product manager. You see the commoditization of product management. Yes, it has been happening for a while, and it will continue.

Last week, I came across a blog post about customer managers. Some of a customer manager’s responsibilities crossed over into the product manager arena, as well as that of the CTO or VP of R&D. Customer management won’t be showing up in startups in the near term, but it will show up in the big firms, particularly those with sales cultures.

Last question: What’s your favorite month of the year, and why?

As a person, I love the Christmas season. As a product manager, my favorite time is at the quarterly closes and the close of the fiscal year. The bonuses come out. The stock splits. Everyone gets rewarded and shares in the harvest.

Follow Up

Thanks, David! If you want to connect with David, follow him on Twitter @DavidWLocke. He often tweets around the metaphor, “Strategy as Tires,” which eventually end up at his blog at Strategy As Tires. He also blogs about product strategy issues and ideas at Product Strategist.

In addition to the Orange County PM events, David also attends the ExecTec Meetup near UCLA on Tuesday nights.

New Around Here?

Subscribe to the feed to receive future updates; follow me on Twitter or contact me through the blog to keep the conversation going.

What’s the best career advice Jim received as a young PM? What trends does he see in software product management? If he could be anyone, living or dead, who would he be? Answers to these questions, and more, after the jump…

Jim, thanks for agreeing to be interviewed for “Product Management Meets Pop Culture”!

Thanks for the opportunity!

What inspired you to become a Product Manager — and what key people and/or situations helped shape you into the Product Manager you are today?

My inspiration came from a conversation early in my career.

I was working in a sales engineering role for a software company and asked, “Who’s responsible for leading the products I support? I’d like to talk to them because they’re missing the mark.”

That led to a conversation with the VP of Product Management and, subsequently, a job offer. (You’ve got to remember, you get what you ask for sometimes.)

The rest is history and I’ve been in product management for 20 years. As a side note, I’ve maintained a great relationship with this friend and mentor.

What’s the best career advice you received as you entered product management?

Because I came from a field sales orientation, I was going to say, “Know thy markets and respect the customer.”

But the advice I received was, “Work from the premise that you own the products, but only have authority to influence when you can substantiate it.”

What trends do you see in software product management, and what are the best ways to stay aware of them?

There are several visible trends that I love.

The first is the building of the local and virtual product management community. We’ve found each other via social media, local product management associations and product camps.

If you aren’t reading various product management blogs (see AllTop first), listening and contributing on Twitter or Facebook, active in LinkedIn discussions, belong to and contribute to a local PMA, you’re missing out.

The second trend is the heightened visibility of product management.

There are many companies relying more on product management. I wonder if we recognize that and are prepared for the challenge?

Also, many early stage companies are engaging product management earlier in the process of building a company. I know of several VC and equity firms that require it and want repeatable methods in place.

If you could thrust yourself, “Being John Malkovich”-style, into someone else’s shoes for a day, whose shoes would you choose, and why?

Wow, that is a great question. I’d walk in my son Gabe’s shoes. He’s a budding entrepreneur, industrial designer by profession, teaches at Arizona State and has a thousand things going on at once.

I’d like to see what life lessons he learned, and if anything I’ve contributed has made him a better person and successful in business.

Last question: Define a truly successful Product Manager…

Someone who listens well, accepts criticism, is pliable, doesn’t discourage easily, plays well with others, and doesn’t have a love affair with their product.

Follow Up

Thanks, Jim! If you want to connect with Jim, be sure to visit his blog Where the Product Management Tribe Gathers, or find him on Twitter at @jim_holland.

New Around Here?

Subscribe to the feed to receive future updates; follow me on Twitter or contact me through the blog to keep the conversation going.